Interview with Molly Emma Rowe
Costume Designer for The Last Kingdom
Following on from our Roundtable and the interviews with Arnas Federavicius and Mark Rowley, today we bring you a chat with the very lovely Molly Emma Rowe, costume designer for seasons 3 and 4 of The Last Kingdom. Below is the full transcript of the interview. If you scroll down to the bottom you’ll find a video containing the audio.
Clare: Hello Molly?
Molly Emma Rowe: Yes.
C: Hi it’s Clare from FANdemonium Network.
M: Hi, how are you doing?
C: I’m alright, how are you?
M: I’m alright. Thank you very much
C: Enjoying the sunshine?
M: Oh yeah. I mean, thank goodness for it, right?
C: Yes, absolutely. I think, I think if we were all stuck inside and the weather was miserable,
M: Can you imagine?
C: At least we’ve been able to get out. And you know, I’ve been spending all my time in the garden.
M: Oh, yeah, me too. Me too. And I feel quite guilty about having one. So I’m like, yeah, you know, I just been at home (whispers) in the garden. (laughs) Actually having quite a lovely time.
C: I’ve started a vegetable garden.
M: Have you?
C: Yeah
M: I have to admit, I’ve taken up gardening as well.
C: It’s great, isn’t it?
M: Yes, it’s brilliant.
C: It’s that joy of seeing it growing and thinking, Oh, yeah, that’s gonna be something soon. At least it is for me.
M: Yeah totally. Totally. My mum gave me some plants actually cos she’s a great gardener. So I sort of feel like I cheated a little bit. Because I haven’t done anything from seeds, but like, I haven’t killed them and they like there’s flowers and stuff.
C: That’s great. What more could you ask for?
M They’re going upward. So you know, I feel. Yeah, it’s very satisfying. I had no idea.
C: Yeah, it is definitely. It’s It’s been one of one of the things that’s kept me going over the last however long it’s been.
M: Ohhh how long.
C: I’ve lost track now. Three months. ish.
M: Yeah, I mean, we. I was on a film that was due to start shooting. And we, we basically went on what we’ve called hiatus. It was about a week or two weeks before actual lock down to the film industry kind of shut down. quite early on. I think because, you know, ultimately, there’s a lot of money at stake in the industry. And, you know, it was it’s to do to shoot anything is hundreds of people and often in, you know, in a room or house or you know, if you’re lucky in a field. But if you’re in a field then it’s likely that there’s thousands of people. So, they were really quick off the mark and it really, you know, so it’s kind of even, we were due to start filming four days after we went on hiatus, you know, I was ready to ready to go. So it’s been a bit odd from that point of view.
But I think also, I’ve, personally, I’ve not stopped for three years. I’ve kind of done projects back to back. So I’ve been trying to kind of go, “it’s okay, yeah, you need this. Enjoy, enjoy it because it’s never gonna happen again.”
C: (laughs)
M: Also you’ve got to make up for this time. So you might as well enjoy it rather than having to work really hard to make up for the time you’ve just been stressed.
C: Yeah, it must, must be hard though, if you were about to start a new project, and you’ve put all the work in and everything’s ready to go, for it then to just stop and you have no idea of when you’re going to go back to it. Have they given you any indication of when you might pick up again?
M: No, I mean, we’re, we’re chatting you know, as much as we can. And I know that they’re trying to kind of look at the script and see if there’s anything that can happen there. But I mean, the story that we were telling is the story of two Syrian refugees who flee Syria and travel to Berlin. And it’s, you know, their journey across Europe and across the Aegean and you know, the nature of that story is, hundreds and hundreds, thousands of people in tiny, tiny space moving across, you know, across the world, basically. So it’s quite an unusual, you know, narrative to try and imagine that happening at this time. So, and it’s such an incredible story. And, you know, with it with an amazing director for a great studio, you know, it was really exciting. And yeah, I really hope we can. We can pick it up safely soon because I think it’s a story that needs to be told,
C: I’ll have to keep an eye out for that one.
M: Yeah. Yeah. When I’m allowed to say what it is. I’ll let you know.
C: That would be great.
M: So have you been working from home the whole time?
C: Yes, I have. Yeah. I mean, the website that I work for, it’s, it’s a labour of love. It’s you know, we’re building it up. It’s starting through YouTube and that kind of thing to make a little bit of money that’s being used to support us a little bit. But yeah, it’s, we’re still growing. But yeah, it seems our followers have a thirst for The Last Kingdom, which we’ve just tapped into. So we didn’t know beforehand. But a group of us having watched the fourth season, sat down and did a little roundtable discussion. Distanced obviously, we did it over the internet, had a bit of a chat about it and some of the themes. And one of my friends who was involved actually does some work with Mark Rowley and Arnas and he said, “Why don’t you try talking to them?” So I thought, okay, so I had had a chat with the guys, and they were absolutely brilliant. And yeah, it’s just taken off. So I thought, who else could I talk to? Who else would be really interesting?
And yeah, I thought, costumes. That’s the one. Because it’s that that makes or breaks a historical show. For me. And I know for a lot of people that the costumes are such a big part of it, you know, getting it as authentic as possible.
What are some of the challenges of working on a show, like The Last Kingdom as a costume designer?
M: Um, that’s a really great question, actually. Because I think it’s, you know, it’s something that we really, struggle’s not the right word, but it’s definitely, you know, there’s a lot to take into consideration because of the physicality of what we’re doing and the safety of the actors, most paramount. So, you know, obviously, it would be great if we could use, you know, boots that didn’t have any grip and had completely, you know, leather soles and real chainmail and helmets and things like that, but the reality of these guys filming, you know, all day for months and months on end.
In, you know, season three we filmed in the winter and it was minus 14, you know. And then in season four we filmed in the summer and it was kind of 40 degrees. So, you know, neither of those are great temperatures. (laughs) let alone the kinds of things that, you know, that we do have to wear, you know, there’s lots of wools and those kind of natural fabrics and also, you know, the layering for me is really important. So they’re never just in one thing. You know, women can’t have their arms out and all of these kind of things to take into consideration with the actual climate that we’re filming in and whether it’s bearable to do so. You know, that’s something that’s quite a constant challenge actually.
C: How much research is involved? In working on a historical piece like the last Kingdom
M: Loads. Loads.
So, it’s a very interesting period of time because obviously there’s a lot of artefacts and then you know, there’s a lot of theory based around things that have been found. But there aren’t photographs to look at. You know that there, are there are drawings but they’re very simple you know, and I think ultimately we’re making a dramatic show. So we need to find the line between what looks great on camera, what safe and possible to endure for months on end. And, and what looks believable and i think i think we, we do it on (The) Last Kingdom. I think we kind of you know, we create quite a believable world, I think, because everything’s quite raw and gritty.
C: Absolutely.
M: And, you know, we break everything down a lot give it a lot of life if something happens, and it has an impact on the clothing. So I think that that sort of all helps realism.
C: Okay. Interesting. I saw you talking. I think it was a video on Instagram, about the breaking down of the costumes. And that was really interesting. You know, how to get that authenticity of, you know, sword strikes on armour and that kind of thing.
M: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the breakdown team’s amazing. I’ve worked with Darryl our head of breakdown for two years and on both seasons that I’ve designed and he’s just, I mean, he’s such an artist. You know, it’s so amazing to kind of see how his brain works and what he thinks and to apply that to the fabrics and he You know, ultimately we give him beautiful beautifully handmade, brand new things and and he works his magic and then it also stops things looking contemporary, I think.
C: Yeah, I love the comparison you put up on Instagram of Finan’s costume with the brand new sort of freshly made version and then the broken down version that we saw on the show. The difference was incredible.
M: Yeah, yeah. I mean leather’s really lovely to work with because you can kind of mould it, shape it and it ages really well. And, you know, from from when the guys put it on, at the beginning of the series to when they take it off at the end, you know, it’s, it’s completely changed shape and colour. And it’s interesting because we have to kind of, you know, at the very beginning, we have to sort of predict what it will do with that much life, but it’s very difficult to predict, you know exactly what’s going to happen when you’re on a horse for that period of time and where things start to move and bend I suppose.
C: Yeah, that’s that’s definitely not something I would have considered. We look at look at costumes and you think Yeah, okay, yeah, they’re just wearing it. But then when you have to factor in all of that movement and, yeah, interesting, so
(Both speak at once)
C: No, carry on
M: I was just gonna say that, that’s something that kind of is a really, a really complementary thing to hear. Because they think if you, if you watch something and you notice the costumes, then that might, that might be because they’re not. You know, they’re not sitting back with the characters in the world. And they’re kind of jumping out. So I think if you kind of, if you just think, oh, that’s just what they wear then then that’s really successful for my team to kind of hear because it means that you know, the character’s really believable.
C: Oh absolutely. I don’t think I don’t think there’s anything I would have gone no that doesn’t look right at all everything just seemed to fit in the world that has been created in the show.
C: You say you like working with leather Do you have any other particular favourite fabrics or combinations of fabrics that you like to work with?
M: Um actually on Last Kingdom we have a dyer and we dye pretty much everything because you know that natural fabrics are more believable. And then we can get a real, we can kind of dye something quite specific that works with the lighting and the set and the action and stuff. So actually working with natural fabrics is probably an all encompassing favourite answer because you know, you can add colour, strip colour, you know they, they take life very well. And I think that’s what I really enjoy. Like if you look at Skade’s costume in series three or Eadith’s in four then you know I think they’re kind of girls who get down and get down with the, with the, with the world and you can see the life in their costumes. It’s really exciting to watch it happen. Yeah.
C: Is there one fabric that you, or material, that you think “No, don’t don’t want to play with that one”? Is there one that just drives you mad whenever you have to incorporate it into a costume?
M: Yes, I mean PVC is really difficult to work with. Because it’s just not as compliant as you’d like it to be. But also superlight fabrics are quite difficult as well so chiffons and you know, it’s quite difficult to get them to behave. But really if you’re trying to put two different fabrics together then you know sometimes they fight with each other and you don’t really know until it’s happening so that it’s always kind of organic and learning and frustrating and problem solving.
C: Who’s been your your favourite characters in the last kingdom to design for?
M: Ohhh that’s such a tricky question. Because there’s been so many. I mean, over two seasons I’ve probably done over 100 main character costumes, you know, with people who come in for one episode or one scene even. Plus all the amazing supporting cast and stunt men added to that, so there’s quite a lot to choose from. But I love love love designing for Aetheflaed.
C: Yeah.
M: I think because in, you know, day to day, it’s quite male heavy, which is an understatement. And it’s very you know, it’s very practical and it’s very battle heavy. And then every now and again I get to kind of sit down and design something so beautiful for Millie (Brady who plays Aethelflaed) who just is so incredible and you know, she’s got the most incredible stature and you know, designing her kind of Flower Festival outfit. It was really fun.
C: That was beautiful. I absolutely loved that.
M: I know we were like, Can we do a spin off episode which is just the Flower Festival? Because yes like with all the little kids. So I spoke to the production designer and we went to a florist together so all of the kind of set dressing of all of the garlands and the vegetables and the flowers and things and the trays and vegetables, I then asked them to make headbands for us that went with that so it looked as one and it was so lovely. We had, we had all of these you know, they were real flowers and berries and things and they were kind of in any fridge that we could find.
(both laugh)
Because it was so hot. But to have all the kids and all you know, it was great to do a scene with so many ladies as well. You know that was really fun for us. I love that. It was quite girl power.
C: Yeah. There’s, uh one thing I’ve noticed is on some of the fan groups and online, we have a growing group of cosplayers looking to
M: Yes!
C: to do some Last Kingdom costumes, including myself, I have to admit.
M: AHHH! I can’t wait!
C: My best friend and I are fighting over who gets to do Aethelflaed. I think I’ve won at the moment, so we shall, we shall wait and see.
Do you have any advice for them? Because obviously, most of us we’re doing this on our own, in our spare time, with what we can get hold of. We don’t have a costume department behind us.
M: I mean, I you know, the cosplay world is so incredible. I think what, what you guys will do is it’s really cool and it’s really, it’s quite breathtaking to see, you know, your work be realised by someone. It’s really it’s really amazing. So I firstly I’d like to say thank you. And you know, are you so… Okay, are you doing lady Aethelflaed or warrior Aethelflaed?
C: I was going to go with warrior Aethelflaed.
M: YAAAAY.
I loved designing that. That was really cool. We took Yeah, that was really fun to do. Because again, you know Millie’s so great. Her character is so incredible and I think she inhabits it so well. So I think really, colour is probably the most important thing actually. I think if you can try and kind of get close to the colours and then look at the shapes quite simply. I think that’s probably a way to maybe not get too overwhelmed.
C: Okay.
M: If that makes sense.
C: Yeah.
M: Cuz I mean even myself, you know, when I have to start a new costume from scratch you kind of go “Oh my god, there’s so many layers. So I need to do this and there’s scabbards, and belts and buckles and jewellery and shoes and ahhh!” I’ll go and have a tea and procrastinate for a bit. So I think try and kind of really break it down like I’m what I do quite often is I’ll, I’ll write a list of what I need to do and it makes it, it makes it a little bit less overwhelming and a bit more achievable. I really like to tick things off.
C: Yeah.
M: I think that’s probably quite a good way to approach it. And, and, you know, there’s some great, there’s some great fabric out there as well. You know, the internet’s actually amazing for buying fabric even when you can’t really get out there. So that is probably my recommendation.
C: Sounds good. Um, is there a particular is there one costume you can think of that you would be happy to wear? That you would like to wear?
M: Great question. That’s such a cool question. I’m, ahhh, and a really hard answer.
Actually, do you know what? I would love Aelflaed’s dresses are so beautiful.
You know everything’s handmade by my incredible, incredible team in Hungary and the talent of everybody involved in the costume department is just, you know, I’m so lucky and grateful. And Aelflaed’s dresses are really special because they don’t… you know. She appears in the Palace and she’s, you know, she’s never riding, she’s never fighting. But they have quite an important job to do to tell the story of you know, her and Aethelhelm, and Aethelhelm’s goals and his kind of opulence. And that he you know, kind of puts the money side of it, I suppose. And her gowns and dresses are just so stunning.
We made a red one for her coronation. And honestly, it’s the most beautiful. I’ll post a couple of pictures actually of Aelflaed which because I haven’t done that. And you guys can kind of see that so. And, you know, for me as well I started training back in the 90s as a fashion designer, you know, it’s still one thing that kind of, lets me fantasise a bit that that’s what I’m doing. No, you know, that’s not what I wanted to do. But it’s kind of nice. You know, it’s nice that I get to do something different within one show. It’s kind of amazing.
C: Yeah, but those dresses, I’m just thinking back, trying to… I haven’t haven’t watched the show in a couple of weeks. So unlike some others who were on their sort of fourth and fifth binges through.
M: Amazing!
C: It’s fantastic, there’s such a great community for the show. Yeah, Aelflaed’s dresses were probably the ones I would like to wear day to day. Yeah, definitely.
M: I mean also, I think Aethelflaed’s armour. I’d be quite into wearing that. I agree with you.
C: Yeah. I think if I manage to make that one and it looks halfway decent, I think I may wear it to a lot of events.
M: I can’t wait to see. That’s so exciting. It’s so exciting. The detail on her, on the cuirass, on the, on the top part is a mirror of… I made this very kind of structured coat for her. The first time we saw her in series three when she arrived at the battle with the Mercian army and I remade that this season in a green. Her armour comes from that as well. So there’s a little bit of detail there, you can kind of pick out,
C: I’m storing all of this away for later.
M: And also, I, you know, the community, The Last Kingdom fan community is so positive and engaging. And, you know, it’s a real pleasure to be involved. Because it’s such a, it’s such a lovely place to be. And, you know, I know I’ve just said it, but it’s so positive. And I think, you know, why not? Things are, things are, things are tricky, so let’s be super nice to each other and doesn’t that feel great, you know?
C: And it’s always so great to see people spreading the love as well. I know a lot of Assassin’s Creed fans have started to discover the show because of Magnus Bruun being in the game that’s coming out later this year.
M: Oh of course.
C: And I’m in fan groups for Assassin’s Creed as well and watching, some of them have turned out his costume from the game trailer in the space of three weeks with just snippets to work on and it’s amazing. Absolutely incredible to see this crossover as well.
M: That’s so cool.
C: I have one final question and it’s it’s rather a cheeky one. But I had, I sort of opened up to some, some groups of friends who watched the show and the one thing several of our female fans have come back and would like to know is why did Sihtric’s costume have sleeves this season? (laughing)
M: Oh, I’m sorry, guys. (laughing) Wow, I hadn’t even thought about that. Do you know what we gave Sihtric and Finan both had new armour this year. We felt like when they’d been away spying on Bebbanburg, they come back to Coccham and they were a total mess. When they got off the boat drunk. And, you know, we all kind of chatted and decided that maybe Uhtred, you know, sorted them out a little bit so they had some new armour. So, you know, that’s the way that we could give them the new armour for the beginning of the beginning of the series.
Sorry.
And yeah, to be honest, I didn’t think about that, and I apologise. Is that enough? Is that okay? (laughing)
C: (more laughing)
M: Do you know what sometimes it’s, it’s also to do with hiding stunt pads and things like that sometimes. But But he was just in short sleeves the whole time. I’m sorry, guys.
C: (laughing) I’ll pass on your apologies to, to various people.
M: And is Uhtred being baptised not, not a fair balance?
C: I didn’t. I didn’t think to bring that up since that wasn’t really a costume.
M: No. But do I pay off with that?
C: Yeah, I think, I think so. I think we can probably call that a good balance. I’ve seen a lot of people asking when Finan and Sihtric are gonna get baptised as well. So I think that’s a, that’s a question for another day. But Finan’s already a good Christian boy. So I don’t think that’s going to happen.
M: I mean, I don’t know if you can turn Sihtric.
C: No, I don’t think so.
M: You know, when you think about who his father is. I think he’s very much a Dane. Yeah, it was Yeah.
C: Oh, well, nevermind.
M: It’s a great question though. I had no idea.
C: Yes, there’s a, there’s a fairly large following for Sihtric. And Finan actually they’ve both got quite large fan groups of their own. So we do like Uhtred and his pretty boys.
M: Exactly. They are such angels. Such angels.
C: Well thank you so much for talking to me and indulging that very silly last question
M: Not at all.
C: and I’ll look forward to seeing the pictures of Aelflaed when you put those up.
M: Yeah, I’ve got some more to pop up so I’ll do that later in the week.
C: Yeah, brilliant. I shall look forward to it. Thank you so much and enjoy the rest of your day.
M: You too. Thank you so much Clare. Thank you.
C: Bye.
M: Bye bye.
Thank you so much to Molly Emma Rowe for talking to us about The Last Kingdom.
